"In any event, now here we are 22 November. It
is the evening. So, it's about 8:30 p.m. and now (CIA) headquarters
wants all the photographs out of Mexico City. And they tell 'em,
'Send staff with all the photographs to headquarters on next
available flight. Call "Mr. Scelso" immediately at
this number upon arrival.'
[See RIF # 104-10015-10316
from the 10th batch.]
"And that's 'Mr. Scelso' sending and signing, and so on,
and so forth.
"And now they tell the story out of Mexico City that the
plane left, we talked about this earlier tonight in the context
of the tapes story. They say, 'ODENVY,' that's FBI, 'agent left
here,' that's Eldon Rudd, so and so forth, and when he gets to
Dallas, Texas he is going to mail them to GALBOND.
[See Document # 104-10015-10123
from the 8th batch.]
"Now you have a new code name for J.C. King, okay? GALBOND.
"As per our telephone call.' You remember the telephone
call, the letter, this all tracks very nicely, and so on and
"In view of the above do you still want us to send a staffer
up there with the photo because we sent Eldon Rudd up there and
he's going to mail them to you from Dallas?' And the answer is
'No, we don't need the staffer now since you already sent them
up. No need to send a staffer with photos.' This is headquarters
[See Document # 104-10015-10317
from the 8th batch]
"And the plane hasn't landed here in Dallas yet, we are
still at about at that stage here. And headquarters is freaking
out, I mean look at this, 'have just reemphasized to FBI the
extreme sensitivity of the photos and stuff that you guys are
[Again, Document # 104-10015-10317.]
"Why is that? Because of the Kostikov story. At this point
Friday night as far as everybody knows in Washington, D.C., the
Kremlin and Castro just did the President, and they don't understand
what's going on yet, and that's what they mean by this, 'the
extreme sensitivity' of this package.
"There isn't any awareness yet that the person in those
photographs is the 'mystery man' and not it's Lee Harvey Oswald
yet, okay? Not until the plane arrives and they take that stuff
over to the police building over here. And we are getting ready
to go that way.
"Okay, now we are done with the 22nd.
"The 23rd, really the first thing we have in the record
is this extraordinary conversation between the President and
Hoover. It's ten o'clock in the morning, barely 6 hours have
passed since the plane landed here at Love Field.
"And Johnson is asking the question
about Mexico City. And Hoover's telling him about the impersonation
down there, okay? And what we have here is early on Saturday,
about the time of that call, this tracks along with the Johnson-Hoover
conversation, now headquarters CIA is informing Mexico City that
the FBI says, 'that's not Oswald.'
[See document # 104-10015-10320]
"Okay, so, the cat's out of the bag now. What time is it?
This is noon on Saturday. This is two hours after the Johnson-Hoover
phone conversation, CIA headquarters notifies Mexico City.
"Now, I want to tell you that there's nothing in the record
until later that afternoon from Mexico City. But, when they do
respond, you know what they say? 'Yeah, we saw photographs of
Oswald on TV last night.' So, really they knew Friday night!
And they don't say anything. It isn't until noon the next day
that headquarters CIA says something to them about it.
"So, you have to wonder, what are they doing down there?
They must be really chewing the fat on this, 'Oh, my goodness,
this isn't him.'
"Anyway, so while that's happening, because the pictures
are being looked at, and because the President's been informed,
and while these things are going on, what do you think is going
on at CIA?
"Well, this is what's going on over there. This is an internal
memo from the acting chief of the Soviet Russia division to the
deputy director for plans, Mr. Helms, no, the assistant deputy
director, that is going to be Mr. Thomas Karamissines, I'm sorry,
because Helms is the DDP. Anyway, the first part of this whole
memo, is this paragraph here and they talk about the problem
of Kostikov and how Oswald had been in contact with him on 1
October, and so on, and references the earlier messages and so
on. Then in the next paragraph is the really startling stuff,
and this is recently released.
"I will read this to you, anyway, let me just use this slide
here and tell you what's on it. This is the second paragraph
in the memo I'm showing you. This is early on the 23rd, and I
have excerpted this paragraph, okay? So you can see here. 'Kostikov,' this is the story,
'is an identified KGB officer. He was a case officer in an operation
that is evidently sponsored by the KGB's 13th department that
is responsible for sabotage and assassination...'
"But it gets better.
'The operation which is controlled by the FBI under the cryptonym
TUMBLEWEED involved a German national resident of,' and there's
the right amount of letters here for New York, 'who was recruited
"In other words, we doubled a KGB guy. The CIA recruited
him in Europe.
'And met this year with Kostikov in Mexico City and shortly thereafter
with a known 13th department officer Oleg Brykin in New York.
"And because he's doing it in New York, who's that going
to involve? What federal agency? The FBI, they have jurisdiction
over these things, once it's inside U.S. borders.
'The instructions given TUMBLEWEED...,' TUMBLEWEED, meaning the
guy that we doubled 'by Kostikov,' by the two officers, meaning
Kostikov and Brykin 'pinpointed objectives for sabotage and the
circumstances of their involvement in the case left no doubt
that both of them,' meaning Kostikov and Brykin, 'were working
for the same KGB component, the 13th.'
"I'm going to put this in plain English. We doubled a guy
that was working for the KGB. He was receiving orders from the
13th department. And the two guys that were giving him orders
were Brykin and Kostikov. And it was going on in 1963. And the
FBI was the U.S. agency in control of monitoring, and using,
and exploiting TUMBLEWEED because it was happening in New York
City. Brykin worked in the United Nations undercover as a Soviet
something or other up there.
"And I found another document, that explains it even better,
just a little better, that has another little paragraph. And
this is what's being uncovered on the 23rd. It's not just that
Kostikov is some kind of loosely, known to be associated with
the KGB 13th department. WE'VE GOT HIM! There is a guy that he's
instructing. HE'S OURS! And every time he (Kostikov) instructs
him (TUMBLEWEED) to do something he, (TUMBLEWEED) he comes and
tells us what his instructions are. SO WE ARE EXPLOITING THE
WHOLE THING, through this guy TUMBLEWEED.
"So, where are we going here? It's only hours after the
assassination. They just found out that that is not Oswald in
the photographs, his voice isn't even on the tapes, but whoever
impersonates him, whoever is on the phone saying, 'I'm Oswald'
links Oswald to TUMBLEWEED, to the whole TUMBLEWEED thing that
the FBI is in charge of which involves Kostikov, and through
"So, I want you to imagine being at the top of the FBI on
Saturday when the CIA passes this along to them. Kostikov has
been an active case. The TUMBLEWEED program has been an active
case all year long. 'You've been watching. You've been watching
Oswald. He's an active case. And that it's worse than that, you've
got the two meeting. And it's in your files. And you haven't
"This is another document I found. That's my handwriting
up there because I found 3 copies of this document. This is Kostikov's
201 number up here. (201-305052) Anyway, here's the paragraph,
'Physical description of Kostikov quite accurately is...we had
from a year ago in Mexico, and FBI...
"Here, 'He met in Mexico an FBI controlled double agent...'
This is the rest of the story I'm telling you. 'The double agent's
Soviet case officer in the U.S. has been Oleg Brykin of the 13
department KGB occupying the overt position of translator/transcriber
to U.S. Secretary, New York City.
"Now this is blacked out here, you see this is actually
redacted. But, I found like I told you I found 3 or 4 copies
of this and guess what? I found another copy that they had neglected
to redact. And it has not only TUMBLEWEED, but it has TUMBLEWEED'S
CIA cryptonym that goes along with it.
"And of course it's an AE crypt. Those of you who are into
collecting these cryptonyms like Nosenko, all of those guys were
AE/______, whatever. And this guy is an AE crypt.
"And this here is passing, the whole, all of their stuff
along. Bagley from the CIA, he passes it along to the FBI. It's
on the 23rd. It's in the afternoon and it's pretty bad news.
"I'm not really certain of what's missing out here but this
whole memo here, this is an FBI memo from Brennan to Sullivan
referencing a call they just got from Bagley.
"This is the other copy I found. I blew it up and you can
see the TUMBLEWEED,
AE/_________. Now you figure it out. What do you think? Looks
like DURBILL. That's been my guess. AE/DURBILL. We just got a
"It's the TUMBLEWEED project which is an FBI controlled
program where we have got the inside line on Valery Kostikov,
and had him all year, and that would be the guy that Oswald went
down there and met with, and whoever impersonated him, made damn
sure was inside U.S. intelligence files the day Kennedy was shot.
"So, it's a pretty bad development on the 23rd, pretty nasty,
the story coming out of Mexico City is very severe which is why
this one is sent down from headquarters.
[See Document # 104-10015-10116
from the 8th batch.]
'Appreciate greatly your efforts being made down there. It is
extremely urgent that we get all possible transcripts from you
guys and in cabling your highly valuable information please feel
free to abandon cablese and talk plain English. Your highly valuable
stuff is being read and processed here around the clock.'
"And it is, literally. This Mexico City story is driving
the vote at the policy level right now.
"Okay, now we are going to go to the 24th.
"This one here. I have to give you a little prep for this.
Okay, this whole cable here, the slide that she had up, which
comes right after this one is actually, you can see from the
CIA to the FBI.
[Probably Document # 104-10015-10130
from the 8th batch.]
"What they are doing is informing the FBI of the transcript
now, of the 9/28 call. The one that allegedly was never reported
out of Mexico. If you recall the first slide of the second part
of this presentation was the one out of Mexico City and [it]
only mentioned the 1 October event, only mentioned Oswald in
the Soviet embassy, didn't say anything about the Cuban consulate.
"And not only are we waking up to Kostikov on the 23rd.
We are waking up to this big Cuban story that was going on. He
was inside the Cuban consulate and making a call from there to
the Soviet embassy as well.
"So, you've got him now with the Cubans and with Kostikov.
Later in this paragraph I found the solution for what I did not
know when I wrote my book Oswald and the CIA about this extraordinary
conversation. The content of the conversation makes it pretty
clear it's not Oswald. And I am not going to go over the details
of that now. If you're interested, there are copies of my book
hanging around in here, go pick it up [and] read [this memo].
It's rather lengthy, it's really discombobulated. Eddie Lopez
knew it was when he analyzed it (the 9/28 call) It's dumb and
"But, I want to go over a couple of things with you about
it that pertain to what I think the plotters are trying to do.
"At some point in the conversation 'Oswald' says,
'I was just there.'
So, the guy on the other end, the Russian, says, 'Okay, you were
'Well, I gave you my address.'
"So, the guy says, 'Okay,' you know.
"And this Oswald character says, 'But I didn't know it,
but I know it now.'
"So, the Soviet guy says, 'Well, why don't you come over
then and give it to us. We're very close by.'
"I mean he's been there all morning. The real Oswald was
there. It's in Nechiporenko's book. [Passport
to Assassination, Col. Oleg Maximovich Nechiporenko, Brith
Lane Press, New York, 1993] I wrote about it in my book.
And this is a totally fictitious situation.
"But the point is, what is he doing? What is the purpose
of this extraordinary dialogue?
"And here's your answer. Here's the interpretation that
the CIA draws. It looks like the Cubans and the Russians are
working in tandem. It looks like he is going to meet with Kostikov
at a place designated by the Cubans. They are controlling his
address. They are going to place him. But it says here just from
the gist of his conversation that it appears that Oswald expected
to be at some location fixed by the Cuban embassy and wanted
the Russians to be able to reach him there.