| "This is the summary report again.
'When word of the shooting,' this is at CIA headquarters, this
is what's going on, literally around 1 to 2 o'clock in the afternoon,
they all turn on their transistor radios when word came over
the radios that Lee Oswald was the guy, 'the effect at CIA headquarters
"And then a phone message comes in from the FBI about the same time saying, 'Oswald is the possible assassin, asking for traces. The message is passed at once to Angleton and O'Neal over in counterintelligence, mole hunting unit. And Ms. Bette Egerter, Annie Egerter she goes running down the hallway. For what? Oswald's 201 file. 'Where's that 201 file?', right? She heads for his file.
"Then Ms. Christine Bustos at the Mexico desk, who had written those reports that I had showed you before, she goes running down the hall for the same file.
"Now you got two people heading down the hall, 'Where's that Oswald file?'
"And then Mr. Reichart, who had been at the same WH/3 desk, he's on leave but he calls in, 'Hey guys, we got stuff on Oswald!'
"And then here it is it's 4 o'clock. Mary Ferrell sent this to me just the other day, somebody that you know found that document. And I blew it up. Hoover calls the Attorney General at 4 o'clock in the afternoon and tells him Oswald went to Cuba on several occasions but would not tell us why, and it's very curious that he would say that. It's not true.
"But if Oswald had actually gotten his visas and everything down there, I mean he might have gone to Cuba. It's very interesting. I don't know exactly what this means, but it's a very intriguing memorandum in any event.
"And then at 5 o'clock Katzenbach calls the FBI, he's Bobby Kennedy's deputy, and he says 'You know if this guy Oswald turns out to be the one we got real big foreign policy considerations up here.'
"Why do you think? Are the French, or Ghana going to be upset? Or something? What's going to happen? No. We are talking about World War III here. We are talking about Mr. Kostikov and Castro controlling Oswald and murdering the President of the United States. This is the concern.
"While we were preparing a cable to Mexico City, they sent us one because they heard the information on the Voice of America.
[See document # 104-10015-10308 in the 8th batch]
"And there it is. There is the cable that came back up from Mexico while they were getting ready to write one to Mexico, saying, 'Yeah, we just heard it's him. And we draw your attention,' here's those cables I showed you. They are telling them to go back and take a look at the one when we notified you when you talked to us and all of this stuff.
"And here's FBI [John said FBI, but I think he meant CIA] headquarters saying, 'Well, the last thing we heard was this stuff.
"And here again is the reminder we know that J.C. King and Win Scott talked on the phone at that time about sending photographs up.
"I showed you what was going on inside of the CIA. I want you to now take a look at the FBI side of the house for a quick second particularly down here in Dallas, Texas. Jim Hosty was working on the right-wing nuts list, you know, with the presumption that it (the assassination) might have been, you know, the KKK, you know, or something like that, when somebody calls from the DPD saying they got this guy Oswald, and anyone know anything about Oswald?
"Well, you can imagine the chilling feeling that goes through Jim Hosty. 'I might have something.' He heads for Shanklin's office. He announced they have an active file on Oswald. Shanklin says, 'Wow! Give me that file.' So, Hosty gives him the file, with all the background information. Belmont calls in. Belmont is shocked. He (Belmont) orders Shanklin to dispatch Hosty over to the Dallas police building. Shanklin hangs up. And he (Shanklin) sees something he has never seen before. He sees that Oswald had been in contact with the Soviet embassy and with a guy by the name of Kostikov.
"So, he (Hosty) goes over there to the Dallas Police building. And he and a guy by the name of Bookhout [another FBI agent] are there for about an hour and they participate in some of the interrogation. And this is an interesting thing. Hosty asks him (Oswald) have you ever been to Mexico City.
"Oswald says, 'How did you know about that?' And then he (immediately) denies it. Kind of a contradictory thing.
"And then they have to, and then that's over they were going to go to the line up, and then they take Hosty off, on instructions from Washington, D.C. Hosty is removed. He is ordered off the interrogation. And for the next day he is over in Irving, Texas, or somewhere looking for the Paines or somebody like that. So, he's out of it.
"Okay, so remember the tapes sequence? The plane comes in, after this, the plane comes in that night.
"So, whoever those Dallas agents are that were involved in tapes it wasn't Jim Hosty. He's been pulled off the case.
"And here's what Kelly says about it, [p.293] 'from our vantage point we can now probably determine why Jim Hosty was so instructed,' meaning removed, 'from the Bureau. Specialists in the Espionage section of the FBI headquarters in Washington were doubtlessly reviewing the Oswald file. Hosty had received his instructions from Gordon Shanklin to cooperate fully with the police, but, Shanklin had done so on orders from Belmont, and Belmont did not know the full story yet, or what it all meant.
"But, Bill Sullivan knew.
"William Sullivan, Assistant Director in charge of security in Washington...'
"And I showed this to you before. And so now Sullivan does all this stuff, realizes the Cuban connection, the Kostikov connection, and sends this stuff straight to the White House.
Debra Conway calls time. John says, "Well, I need to talk to you about that. "The audience laughs. "We'll work it out later."
"Because this is right where it starts to get exciting. Let me explain what's getting ready to happen here. What you see and what I have still for you is you watch the Kostikov virus balloon and you see Katzenbach, and Hoover, and Johnson use it to completely order around the entire national leadership, Chief Justice Earl Warren, Senator Russell, it included; the whole investigation is put together under the cloud of '40 million Americans are going to die if they don't do this.' And you see this story used as the leverage to carry it all out.
"And I have a briefing to show you with watching all of the cables going back and forth, it was quite interesting to put that together, and so that will probably take me about 30 minutes or so to finish that off, and I'll be happy to do it later, and thank you very much.
[Doug Horne gave his presentation, followed by Q and A, then John Newman returned.]
"I see the party faithful here, and I'll do my best. I don't have much of a cerebellum left myself right now. I had to get up at 4:30 a.m. this morning in West Virginia.
"So, I think we were getting close to the end of 22 November and just to review and sort of reorient. In the first part of the presentation we went through the tape story by itself and then having got a grasp on that however much we can grasp, I personally think that the tapes survived and were listened to. We started pre-assassination with the Mexico City cables, we watched that story unfold and then we watched the story of what was going on in Mexico City, Win Scott sending some cables around about Kostikov, an investigation, an interesting one, going on down there by the FBI office by Mr. Peck and others, and then we arrive at 11/22, we watch the sort of electricity unfold at headquarters CIA, and people panicking here in Dallas at the FBI.
"And that's about where we were I think when I ran out of time, and so that's really the best I can do to remember, to summarize. I think what I am going to do now is just go through a few of these overheads that were left over on the 22nd.
"The one that is on the screen now happens to be Mexico City 7019, and it is, it says the 23rd, but of course it's not, that's Zulu time, that's Greenwich Mean Time. In case you didn't know that all military and or government documents have a Zulu time tag on the end of it, and that's Greenwich Mean Time, it's 5 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time, so, it's actually, you subtract 5 and you end up with about 8 o'clock in the evening on the 22nd here. And so what the station says is that, 'We have some photographs of an unidentified American type who is possibly Oswald entering the Cuban embassy on 15 October.'
[See Document # 104-10015-10107 from the 8th batch.]
"It is a very interesting cable. This is the 'mystery man,' the same one that was photographed going in on the 1st of October. And I would like to make a clarification on that point. It's not often realized because we talk about the 'mystery man' as having made the telephone call, this is the 1st October event. And actually if you read very carefully the first cable out of Mexico City, they never make that mistake. They report two things. They report a phone call by a guy using Oswald's name, they give the time, that's the first paragraph, then they go to the second paragraph and report there is an individual who enters the embassy at this time. They never say this man made the call.
"A day and a half later when CIA headquarters tells the rest of Washington, they make the connection, they say the 'mystery man' going in is the one who made the call.
"I don't see any particular reason to believe it was or was not him. It certainly is not Oswald, because if he's going in, again, on the 15th of October, you know, Oswald was not in Mexico City on the 15th of October, so without regard to the issue of the tapes this is one more reason why Oswald was impersonated.
"Let me go over that again. This man here, if he is making the call, cannot be Oswald, without the issue of the call it certainly isn't Oswald anyway. So, you have an impersonation here, whether it's in film, or you have an impersonation whether it's, whether he's on the phone one way or another.
"Another thing about this cable that's really important is that at this time, Win Scott, Chief of Station, CIA Chief of Station sends a cable to headquarters and asks for a photograph of Oswald.
"I just figured this out, and I've always wondered why he did that. And now I know. I don't have for you what I'm talking about on the 15th of October when that guy was photographed going in again Win Scott sent a cable to CIA headquarters asking for a photograph of Oswald and I always wondered why it took him two weeks to ask for a photograph of Oswald, remember that THE EVENT is 1 October.
"The reporting of the event is a week later, on the 8th of October. You would think that the Chief of Station for Mexico City would have asked for a photograph out of Oswald's headquarters file on the 10th as soon as headquarters responds that they have got information on Oswald, but he doesn't. He sends it out on the 15th, which is the same day they photograph this guy, the 'mystery man' going in again.
"And I think, my theory now is, that Win Scott realizes it can't be Oswald. Oswald isn't there. And here's this guy going in again. 'Hey, headquarters, send me a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald.'
"And it's the rest of the audit trail that gets really interesting because headquarters doesn't send a photograph. Headquarters says, 'Well, we'll ask the Navy. We'll ask the Navy for a photograph.' And they send a cable to the Navy a couple of days later. And they tell Navy the reason that they want the photograph is so they can send it to the CIA station in Mexico City so that the CIA station there can compare it to the photographs they have down there so that they can make a determination whether or not the Lee Oswald in Mexico City is the same Lee Oswald in the files at headquarters.
"So, everybody knows what the issue is, and what the stakes are.
"But the real question is why does headquarters CIA bother to ask Navy for a photograph of Lee Oswald? I can tell you I've got a complete copy of Oswald's 201 file, and security file, and they have 5 or 6 photographs of Lee Oswald at headquarters. They've had them since 1959. So, again it's another example of what I call dimming the lights.
"If they send down to Mexico City in mid-October a photograph of Oswald it precipitates a decision. It precipitates an awareness. It's over. It's not Oswald. He's been impersonated. It turns on the alarm switches and the situation begins to escalate.
"By not sending the photograph of Oswald down there they don't know. As far as the station knows, and they are not going to know till they see his mug on Mexican television the night of the assassination. So, the whole story of the 'mystery man' has this other aspect to it besides who that guy is, and that's really where we've been interested as a research community. There's this other aspect of, 'Do they know?' 'Do they know that that's not him?' And when do they know. And they are asking for these photographs for weeks and by the way, the Navy never responds.
"The day of the assassination one of the first cables that headquarters CIA sends down to Mexico City is, 'We are still waiting on that picture from Navy. We'll ask them again.'
[See Document # 104-10015-10317 from the 8th batch. "We have asked Navy for photos again, but Mexi can see Oswald's picture sooner on the press wire.]
"And then later on the Warren Commission will query the CIA about this issue and Helms will send a memo to Lee Rankin and specify everything I just told you, that we asked Navy for a photo and it was never sent as of 11/22